“Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning.”
Frederick Douglass
Over the course of the Woolamaloo Gazette I have posted on a wide variety of subjects; sometimes on books, movies or simply the city of
Because of the holidays the disciplinary hearing was not held until yesterday, Wednesday 5th. I could not really talk about it here while the process was ongoing – I am now free to discuss what happened for the brutally simple reason that Waterstone’s dismissed me from my job yesterday. They took great exception to my mentioning of work on my blog. They said I had violated the rules and brought the company into disrepute. I think by their actions they have brought the
Anyone who has been a regular reader of the Gazette will know that I do occasionally mention my work life, although it accounts for a fraction of my written output. Like many folk I am not always happy at work (I have good days too, I don’t go in miserable all the time as I’m sure former colleagues would attest if they could) and me being me when I mention bad days or annoying occurrences I do so in my own satirical, sarcastic, comedic style. I often put many things into a basic narrative form, add characters etc. So I would coin terms such as ‘Bastardstone’s’ and have a character called ‘Evil Boss’ (my equivalent to Dilbert’s Pointy Haired Boss – in fact I compared head office directives to being in a Dilbert cartoon). I once referred to a chum and former colleague,
I pointed out that I had not set out to deliberately ruin the company’s image. In fact I don’t think I have even inadvertently; if I had wished to do that then I would have been running less satirical and far more biting comments on a rather more regular basis, rather than commenting from time to time about a bad day at work, a grumpy manager or the like. You’d think I had run a sustained propaganda campaign of subversion.
I pointed out that I did not let my annoyances get in the way of performing my duties at work (indeed no complaint was made about my work) and that, like many bloggers it was therapeutic to vent steam outside of work. I pointed out that I posted these comments in my OWN time, writing in my OWN home for my OWN blog. It’s not linked to any official Waterstone’s site and does not reflect their opinion but mine. The site clearly says (twice) on the header that it is SATIRICAL and that it is my ‘mumblings and rants’. I expressed my own OPINION in my own time, something I am legally entitled do (the European Convention on Human Rights, part of Scots Law since the devolved parliament was brought in expressly guarantees this right). I told them I felt they were violating my civil rights. I told them I have informed my MSP because of this.
Long before full universal suffrage in this country we still had stinging satire (recall those Punch cartoons among many others) – it is an accepted part of our culture and one of the ways individuals have to remind large organisations, be they companies or governments that we too have a voice and a right to use it. People have used satire, sarcasm and humour to make points for centuries. Today that freedom is enshrined in law.
I pointed out that I had over my eleven years promoted Waterstone’s in many ways, sometimes on my own time. I have organised and hosted more author events with more writers for the enjoyment of more book-buyers than I can recall. I have written for the guide books which Waterstone’s had printed on various genres. I have appeared in print media and broadcast, talking on the BBC in my own time about literature, introduced as an expert bookseller from Waterstone’s in
I asked why, if the company did not like me commenting about work on my blog they did not simply have the branch manager have a quiet word with me? Should that not have been the proper way to deal with this? I told the hearing that if this had been done I probably would have refrained to keep the peace. My union rep also brought up this point. We did not get a proper answer to this question. We asked how the blog (which is not exactly high profile) came to their attention and who lodged the complaint. They didn’t know. Enquiries were made during and adjournment. We asked again afterwards. We were told that they were not at liberty to tell us this. So I do not know who my accuser is, which seems rather unfair to me.
I pointed out once more that I was outraged that a company seemed to think it had the right to tell an employee what opinions they could articulate in their own time. I asked if I repeated some of the articles they found offensive in the blog to a friend in the pub would that not also be defaming the company by the logic they were employing here? I was not answered. I pointed out that this was like the Thought Police and invasive of my rights. I was told that if I discussed anything to do with work then I was representing the company and must conform to their rules. Obviously I dispute this strongly – this is like saying we have a new feudal system where companies are the lords and employees are mere serfs who they own. How can I possibly be considered to be representing the company on my own site in my own time? In fact do not most companies around the world have riders attached to their email saying explicitly that any comments within are not necessarily those of the company? So why do they assume I am talking for the company on my own site in my own time? That makes no sense to me.
I am not a serf; I am not an indentured servant. I am a free man with the right of freedom of expression. The company does not own me, body and soul – conforming to their rules at work is to be expected, but in your own time and space? How can anyone be expected to go through their personal life in fear of saying the wrong thing? No-one should.
This has left me dreadfully upset. That a company I have given so many years to could treat me in such a brutal manner is despicable. That a book company thinks so little of the primacy of freedom of expression is alarming. I pointed out that Waterstone’s has stated publicly several times in the past that as a bookseller they believe in the freedom of expression and not in censorship. In fact a campaign was mounted a few years back which had banners along the lines of ‘what did Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot have in common? They feared the power of the written word. Celebrate Freedom of expression with us.’ Some folks may recall it. I asked if this was actually meant or was it simply cynical marketing? I was not answered.
I have never been fired in my life until now. I have never even been unemployed – I worked my way through college (that’s when I began at Waterstone’s). Now I find myself having to urgently try and find work at short notice, I find myself worried about my financial security, my bills, my mortgage and how to get another job after eleven years of service and where that will be and when. I find myself having to consult with my union over what appeal or action we can now take against this company for their despicable, dishonourable actions.
Fortunately my family, my friends, fellow bloggers, fellow reviewers and writers have been offering me sympathy, advice and support. Times like this, they say, are where you find out who your friends are. Well, I have found out I have a lot of immensely good friends and they have lifted my spirits remarkably. I’m not alone.
And other bloggers and readers, new to this site, you too should pay some attention here because I’m not alone and these shameful actions affect more than just me. These actions have implications for everyone who blogs and works, which, let’s face it, would be thousands of us. If my rights to the freedom of expression can be ignored in this manner then so can the rights of any worker’s. You also have to ask yourself who is listening to you? Who is reading what you write and passing judgement? Is it acceptable for companies to be monitoring what their employees do in their own time? To act as if your employment contract controls every aspect of your personal life outside of work?
The free expression of opinions and thoughts is the most primal of our democratic rights. Our entire culture is based around it. The book trade could not exist without it. The internet would not exist without it. Blogs would not exist without it. Once upon a time a man was executed for translating the Bible into English – considered a dreadful heresy and, more importantly, a threat to the power and control of the authorities of the time. Eras change, but the notion of powerful groups trying to subvert the ability of others to communicate remains constant. That’s why we have laws and rights.
Freedom of speech, freedom of expression. These are not idle words. They are not some dusty old phrases liberals like to mention from time to time. They are as vital to our free, democratic way of life as water and air.
The word is already spreading beyond my family and friends. A lot of people are thinking about this and asking themselves if this is a company they want to deal with. That is not for me to say; it is for them to decide - but you should certainly be made aware of their actions when deciding.
There are more than I can properly thank here, but here are some of their writings on the subject already expressed: Ariel; Matthew; Lili; Nil Desperandum. Many more have emailed me. I really can't express my gratitude enough to you.
Could you put your contract online pleae. I agree with you totally, on the condition that your contract has nothing on defamation or representation. If it does, then the company have every right to sack you. Signing a contract in the first place is agreeing to their terms and if you didnt like them they could have been negotiated or you could have found a job in a different bookseller. By signing you are agreeing to any of their 'laws' that are laid down in the contract. I'm sure you wouldnt argue if you were dismissed for a breach of confidentiality against contract clauses
ReplyDeleteJust for your information:
ReplyDeleteThis issue is being discussed in the LiveJournal 'edinburgers' community, here: http://www.livejournal.com/community/edinburgers/516623.html(I am user 'wibbble' on LiveJournal.)
I won't comment more here, just thought that you might like to see some other discussion of what happened to you.
As the Japanese would say...
ReplyDelete"So-des-neh!" (translator: Oh i see!)
I understand now Joe...
The repurcussions of your deeds seem to be more severe than mine...then again i wouldnt know...who knows the police would be waitin for me the day i fly off to Melbourne?
:-(
I've posted links to this story and Ariel's commentary on it to DiverseBooks.com
ReplyDeleteMy ex partner has been a book seller for a number of years and I am dismayed at the whole industry's poor treatment of staff.
Alex McLintock
Does your Union rep not recommend taking this to tribunal?
ReplyDeleteThis cannot be right.
Have you seen this http://morrisons-employee.blogspot.com/
Morrisons will be sacking half of the workforce!
I'm just baffled and amazed at the stupidity of Waterstones and its management at times. This seems the biggest over-reaction and quite possibly the totally wrong thing to do.
ReplyDeleteManager thought process:
1. Hrm, employee not always happy at work. He vents onto the internet VERY INFREQUENTLY.
tick, tick, tick
2. I know! Lets sack him!
I really hope you fight this tooth and nail Joe, not to get your job back but just to show what a mindless, bunch of narrow-minded morons they really are. You have mu support and thoughts.
Fight the power!
This is quite shocking. I am amazed that Waterstone's have behaved in such a fashion. I will certainly advise that our organisation take our purchasing elsewhere. Good fortune to you, Lestat!
ReplyDeleteYours,
A major healthcare organisation.
Is that Waterstone's in Princess Street? I go there on Saturdays, browse through the books, read the paper with cup of coffee upstairs... But after reading your story, I'll probably find a better place - one that treats its employees with more respect than Waterstone's.
ReplyDeleteGood luck to you!
I am sorry to hear about all this. I used to work for Barnes and Noble in the U.S. and it was a constant source of blog fodder. I guess I was lucky. Hang in there!
ReplyDeleteKristin
http://www.justkristin.com
best of luck to you.
ReplyDeletehopefully this will turn into one of those incidents where later one thinks "that was the best thing that ever happened to me". obviously waterstone operates from fear - fear others will find the company is not so magnanamous as they believe. you, on the other hand, sound like you operate out of love of literature. in my life experience, love triumphs over fear every time.
warm regards
I feel your pain. I got fired from Made For Idiots for... well... refering to them using that name on a website of mine. Instant dismissal for 'Gross Misconduct'. I'd been desperately unhappy there for a few years. I was glad to be rid of them. Thankfully, I went on to find a much better job, paying a heck of a lot more.
ReplyDeleteOne door slams shut in your face... another opens.
These days, it is best to keep your offline identity a secret. I've heard that HR people are now Googling people to see what they have posted online before hiring or moving forward with them. Another example - if you don't hide your real identity and you have any intention to run for a political office in the future, don't be surprised when something you said in a huff or that was meant to be taken humorously, is twisted against you.
ReplyDeleteSad state of the world, but that's the way it is. Better safe (and anonymous) than sorry down the line...
Was pointed towards your blog by BoingBoing. Is there anything specific that we** can do to help? A swarm of emails pointing out the irony/hypocracy in Waterstones' behaviour ... ?
ReplyDelete** by 'we' i guess i mean the loose gaggle of peoples who enjoy weblogs, value greatly our freedoms to express/dissent, seek to recognise and reverse injustices and blah blah blah.....
best wishes, peter.
Perth, Western Australia
I agree with the above poster.Some kind of campaign or something 'we the people' can do would be cool.
ReplyDeleteTo be able to show Waterstones how stupid and wrong they were in making this decision.
I work in retail too and often post about bad days at work,bad choices made by the staff.
You have my support.
IMHO Waterstones have harmed their business much more by sacking you than you ever did by the comments in your blog.
ReplyDeleteI second those posters that say this is the push that the universe has been trying to give you for a while; the tunnel you find yourself in is scary, and I appreciate that the emotions of anger, betrayal and injustice are very real, as well as the fear and insecurity of income. But trust where this is taking you. The light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train, I promise.
ReplyDeleteI've been there, and was lucky enough to have insight into myself that these were the nudgings and shovings to put me on a path of my own making. Strap on to the roller coaster, it's gonna be scary, but FUN.
For sure you're getting loads of unsolicited advice, so excuse this piece: Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has written loads about this, around the topic of "flow", so it might be helpful to borrow his lens for a while.
And channel your energy into creating a positive future for yourself, rather than channeling it against your ex-employer; karma will run over their dogma soon enough :)
simon in cape town
www.ideafarm.co.za
Feed their words back to them. Make a sign:
ReplyDelete‘What did Waterstone, Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot have in common?' and spend an afternoon with it in front of every store you can find. You'll get press coverage and maybe embarass your former employer enough to hire you back.
Bill from the other side of the pond.
"IMHO Waterstones have harmed their business much more by sacking you than you ever did by the comments in your blog."
ReplyDeleteI agree.
Badmouthing your employers on your own web site is the same as writing a letter to your boss telling him you think the company you work for is shit. You might moan to your peers in the pub about what happened with your boss that day but you wouldn't do it to his face. No sane person would do that yet you seem to think that what you did was different because it was on a publicly viewable blog! I hate to bring you back to reality but what you did was frankly daft. Learn from your mistake rather than trying to justify it.
ReplyDeleteHow about slipping a note with a link to this posting into every copy of every book about blogging that Waterstones sells?
ReplyDeleteJust a thought...
I am very saddened to hear what happened, and also very shocked that a huge, respected company would be so stupid in dealing with a few personal comments. It is saddening to see such a brutal and unnesserary kneejerk reaction; like you said, if they were -really- concerned with you expressing your thoughts, they could have had the branch manager have a talk with you. Instead, they have done themselves more damage than if you had spent 11 years deliberately slamming the company. I hope that things work out well for you.
ReplyDeleteJoe: Check out www.dooce.com. This gal was fired from her job for the very same reason: comments made on her own personal website. It must be because blogs are powerful.
ReplyDeleteAbsurd over-reaction. You don't sack people for that(and certainly not long-term employees) - you have a quiet word in their ear. Sorry for your troubles.
ReplyDeleteBe of good cheer Master Ridley
Good luck and bad cess to them.
To: onlineenquiries@waterstones.co.uk
ReplyDeleteSubject: Your (former) employee Joe @ Woolamaoo Gazette
I've been very saddened to hear about your sacking of a dedicated employee over humorous & satirical comments he posted in his personal weblog regarding Waterstones. I prefer to shop at companies that have a sense of humor (and humanity) and as such will no longer be shopping at Waterstones.
Very disappointing.
James
I worked for four and a half years as a bookseller at Barnes & Noble (probably the US equivalent of Waterstone's) and was repeatedly chastised for what I had written in my blog (http://blowout.blogspot.com/). It took a great deal of effort on my part--as well as having a manager who understood freedom of expression--to keep me out of trouble. Barnes & Noble, incidentally, does not have a union; if you get called on the carpet, it's All of Them vs. You.
ReplyDeleteI was always the rogue spirit at the store, but I was also one of the best workers. I was consistently their first- or second-best seller of their customer discount card (where for $25, you get 10% off your purchases for a year). However, when the old manager left and they went through one manager in less than a year, they promoted one of the assistant managers to the position.
Suddenly, she totally changed.
B&N has a three-write-ups-and-you're-fired policy (which I think is silly, given that there's no statute of limitations on write-ups). Before this third manager, I had one write-up: I had overslept one day by two hours. Not intentional, but certainly worthy of a write-up. However, this new manager wrote me up because I carried a Swiss Army knife (which I've had since I was a Boy Scout), calling it "a weapon". Bah! Very well; I stopped carrying it. She harped on me every chance she got, perhaps singling me out because I didn't follow the Company's idea of an employee, grateful and subservient and without any opinions except those that the Company allowed.
Ultimately, I was fired. Whilst helping *three people at once*, a lady came up to me and asked agitatedly, "Can someone help me?" To which I responded jocularly, "Oh no, we don't help people any more, ma'am; it's not cost effective!" Everyone laughed. Then I said, "Just kidding, ma'am! Let me call someone." I picked up the phone and paged help up front. The manager thought this was a major problem and claimed a complaint had been lodged. However, I'm 90% sure the lady laughed with the others, so I think the manager was looking for a reason to fire me.
Don't worry about losing your job there. What I realized after losing mine was that places like Barnes & Noble and Waterstone don't appreciate their employees at all; to them, you're just an animal with a name-badge on.
Go get a job with their competitor, or better yet, start your own bookstore. If you need an extra employee, track me down via my current weblog (http://obnoxio.us/) and maybe I'll move to the UK and help you.
The following was posted on Brad DeLong's site:It almost makes one wish there were laws governing employment in the United States.
ReplyDeleteWell, there are some. They just do not work as a rule, and when people try to get them to do so often end up with the former employee now the current unemployable.
If people aren't free to criticize an employer off the job, Dennis, hasn't the employer in effect pre-empted their right to speak?
Where does it stop? Does having a Kerry bumpersticker amount to a firing offense? It did in one case we know of. Did you know that some companies refuse to employ people who aren't fundamentalists? Losing one's enthusiasm for Christianity can be a firing offense.
The Unites States' employment policy is completely insane.
Charles Utwater II
The Guardian had a good article Sunday about the erosion of employment security at the bottom end of the scale in the UK. That's how it started in the US, with agricultural and domestic employees denied basic rights; some states also had anti-union rules. The erosion was slow but one-directional. Beware, and defend the poorer before you become them.
I'd be surprised if a company of Waterstone's size didn't have an internal appeal procedure, which you don't mention- you should use it if it does. Assuming though that it doesn't so that the dismissal decision is final, you have statutory rights. See the ACAS advice at http://www.acas.org.uk/rights/discipline.html and the DTI advice at http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/individual/fair-pl714.htm for an introduction. Thus you have the right to a written statement of the reasons for your dismissal and also, of course, to complain of unfair dismissal. You need legal or similar specialist advice. As you are in Edinburgh you have a good choice of specialist solicitors, or the CAB which has access to the Faculty of Advocates Free Representation Unit, although as you are a union member that is probably your best starting point- ask them if they offer free representation, most will.
ReplyDeleteBear in mind that if the remedy you are seeking from the Employment Tribunal is reinstatement, you may be prejudicing your chances of this if you run a press/online campaign as it may be said that this would make reinstatement impractical, restricting you to financial claims. Suggestions like the "swarm of emails" are very dangerous! Take legal advice before you go that way.
Like your blog- but please, grey/green on grey/green isn't easy for all of us to read!
Good luck and best wishes.
Wow, I always knew this was possible. I wish you the best of luck and if you don't mind am posting a link from my blog.
ReplyDelete-bear
I'm really sorry that this has happened to you and I hope you find something good out of it eventually. As an avid reader I have spent good money at Waterstone's in the past. You can be sure I won't anymore.
ReplyDeleteto R.D. above - I'm not sure what you mean by Barnes and Noble 'doesn't have a union'. Unions are organisations of employees, not employers. I'm sure there's one (or several) unions that would cover the book trade, which you could have joined. Or do you mean that B&N have some kind of company policy, or contract stipulation, against union membership? In that case, I'd refuse to work for them - union membership ought to be a basic right of employment (and one you should certainly exercise in any job).
ReplyDeleteFor the record, you'll probably getting even more visitors on here now that Neil Gaiman has linked to this on his blog.
ReplyDeleteThe whole situation is ridiculous. I don't want to be the one who flies off the handle and starts screaming about 1984, but I can't help thinking- why is it ANY of their business what you do in your own time?
Anyway. My condolences; I've always thought that Waterstones were a pretty good book chain, and I've definitely liked the Edinburgh ones when I've visited them. Which makes it even more bizarre that this could have happened to you.
FYI, this post is now also listed in Neil Gaiman's journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/officialgaiman/169248.html
ReplyDeleteYou could post the address of the store and/or Waterstone's HQ so sympathizers can send in their support for your case.
Best of luck.
--Psyche
Toronto, Canada
http://www.spiralnature.com
Hiya. Your story's spreading - I found you via Neil Gaiman's blog...
ReplyDeleteI doubt Waterstones are in the right over this, but I also doubt they'll back down without making life even worse for you. FWIW, I'll make sure I ask for you by name whenever I'm in an Edinburgh branch; if it's yours, it'll make 'em kick themselves. If not, I lose nothing :)
Best of luck,
Jenny (puddingcat on LJ)
Reall sorry to hear that Waterstone's have treated you so unfairly. I hope a rival book company sees this and realises what an asset you would be to them and hires you on the spot! also as others have mentioned Neil Gaiman said lovely things about you in his blog! Silver Lining? Hope everything works out okay for you, :)
ReplyDeleteI was pointed this way from Neil Gaiman's journal. I am terribly sorry for you losing your job for something you did on your own free time. One would think that if everything we did off the clock reflected back on the company one would be paid for our time, wouldn't you?
ReplyDeleteI'm not from the UK, but I certainly won't be buying any books from them if I get the chance.
This state of affairs is ludicrous, to say the least. Neil Gaiman's blog pointed me this way, and what you write makes my jaw drop. I don't understand how any company could treat their employess that way. You have my deepest sympathies (for what they're worth). You also have my assurance, for what it's worth, that I will never buy anything at Waterstone's ever again.
ReplyDeleteI'm appalled at the way Waterstones has treated you, and will now be doing my book purchasing elsewhere! Best wishes, and I hope your dark days brighten soon.
ReplyDeleteHow ridiculous. I wonder if they considered how much worse a story like this spreading on the net would be for their reputation - world-wide, I might add - than a few funny comments in a blog?
ReplyDeleteGood luck to you.
kate,
melbourne
You've made the big time, as I was directed here by Neil Gaiman.
ReplyDeleteGood luck to you!
I writing from Brasil.
ReplyDeleteWell, one thing is certain... if they though you were destroying the comapy's name, than they should have thought about what fiering a good employee would do to them. I never heard Of them down here in south america, and the first thing i know about them is that they feel entitled to monitor those who work for them outside the work-time. Despite what the contract may say, I'm am sure they know "1984". I know that next time i go there i won't think twice: I'm not one to be their customer.
So, looks like a bunch of folks are writing to/ no longer reading books from a big ol' book company.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations.
By the way, don't go and work for them again. You are a smart guy and obviously have a lot of repect. They, on the other hand, don't know a good thing when it's sitting in their lap.
Paul
(sherbetsaucers on LJ)
Well, I suppose that's "business." But that doesn't make it any less outrageous or disheartening.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, if you wanted to tackle this the "American" way, you should take your story to the media. (From reading some of the previous comments, it seems like that may happen regardless.) If Waterstone were worried about being brought into disrepute, just wait until the media gets a hold of it.
In any case, I truly wish you the best. And I will be keeping any eye on your blog.
Nolan in Michigan
(also a bookstore employee)
Hey get the union movement involved in your campaign for freedom of thought.
ReplyDeleteThis is a classic struggle for working people to maintain their independence and integrity.
In our own time we do what we want - not what the boss wants.
A good organised unionised workplace would ne'er allow this to happen - again.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the way of things when working for large corporations. Walmart is one of the worst for it. My fiance works there, in the pharmacy, and has been called on the carpet twice for expressing a need for more help. (They lost a pharmacist more than six months ago and haven't yet replaced him, despite the fact that the volume of prescriptions is far too much for two pharmacists to handle alone.) In both cases, he was complaining or agreeing with the complaints of his fellow staff, not in front of customers.
ReplyDeleteI, myself, have worked at Barnes and Noble, and noticed much the same thing. Any attempt at individuality or expression is immediately stifled.
Well I too came over here from Neil Gaimans site. It sounded like YOU were just about the only reason he did any readings or signings at that store. I would imagine that Neil is a pretty big draw. I guess they won't have to be bothered with all those people in their store wanting to buy books from them so much. So sorry to hear about this, it's an ongoing problem here in the States too. Large companies completely missing the point and simply making their problems worse by being so heavy handed about it all. I wish you the best because you sound like the exact sort of person I HOPE to find in a bookstore.
ReplyDeleteI'll be boycotting Waterstone's in Edinburgh from now on. No real reason to shop there. I can always sit in the Starbucks and read.
ReplyDelete~evil grin~
No, honestly, this is a tragedy.
perceval on LJ
Another one of Mr. Gaiman's blog readers.
ReplyDeleteI know you're not alone - other people have been fired for their blogs, Dooce is one http://www.dooce.com/. Then you have the story of a fellow LJ user who had the secret service knocking on her door (USA) because one of the readers of her obviously sarcastic post, decided she seriously wanted to kill the President. No, I'm not making it up.
Your case is even more on the twisted. You worked at a bookstore. I used to have this idiotic romantic notion that it would be an enviroment that would nurture and not squash creative output.
I hope things work out for you - could be the best thing that ever happened to you. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
woah, that is outrageous. I really hope you are getting a job with a company that can stand employees writing about them in their blogs. What a bunch of... *censored*
ReplyDeleteI agree with others, take it to the press. This is too strange and weird not to.
It must do you good that you have such a great writer as Neil Gaiman supporting you. I hope thanks to his blog post more writers stand up for you.
Man, that's harsh. Waterstones ought to be ashamed of themselves. I, for one, will no longer darken one of their shops. (Got here via Neil Gaiman's blog.)
ReplyDeleteAdrian.
Got here via Gaiman also, although I've read your blog in the past. Being Edinburgh-based myself, I'll be popping along to the store sometime over the next few days and asking to have a quiet word with the manager, just to point out that reading your blog has actually encouraged me to shop @WS in the past. I agree with some of the previous posters, though - don't got back to work for these idiots. Just sue 'em, and get another job. Hang in there, it'll happen.
ReplyDeleteLike so many others i was sent here via Neil. I think what happened to you is truly horrible. I am a nurse in the states and have found on several occasions that what you do in your private life is often "reflective of the company" I worked at one clinic that did not like the staff to gather at a bar after work wearing our scrubs, for fear some patient would think we were all raging alcholics.
ReplyDeleteMedicine is a cynical sarcastic group of people....well except its managers. Dont feel bad, I was once fired being "sarcastic". I tried to explain that I just wasnt a slapstick kind of girl. Leaving there was the best thing that ever happened to me. I found while I missed my coworkers, I did not miss the "management" of BIG BROTHERS. It is amazing sometimes how stress can build silently over time.
I have a better job now that dosent impose silly rules and fully understands the healing power of sarcasm.
I wish you the best, and I must admit, I wish Waterstones was attached to a US bookseller that i could Ban. There is a reason the FIRST admendment is FIRST.
With prayers,
Em
Got here via neil gaimans blog. Just posting to say that you have my sympathies, I can't see how this is anything other that a violation of your human rights to free expression. I suggest that you talk to a solicitor of scottish law (VASTLY cheeper than English law handily) about a possible case for unfair dismissal, I know naf all about scottish law sadly but it can't hurt. I'd also suggest that you go to a paper with the story, It's solid human interest, as the webs reaction has shown (go to the solicitor first though).
ReplyDeleteMatt (lowkeyknight on lj)
Also here via Neil Gaiman.
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear that you've been treated in this underhand, shoddy way. I'm Glasgow based, but have often been through to Edinburgh for signings in Waterstones. I won't be making the trip again and I'll be boycotting Waterstones in Glasgow as well.
I agree with the commenters who suggest that you seek legal advice before you seek any other form of action (involving the press, etc). Your union should be able to point you in the right direction and quite possibly have a fund for this kind of thing. Best of luck to you - I'll be following your story.
Hopefully your story will have a happier outcome than a lot of the US-based bloggers who've been dooced, our employment rights (mostly thanks to Europe) are better protected in the UK.
Claire
http://blog.hobbits.org.uk/
I won't bother mentioning that I'm here via Neil's website.
ReplyDeleteThat's truly horrid, what this company did to you. Though, to be honest, I'm kind of surprised it didn't happen to someone in America first, given the state of my country.
But I digress.
All the best in the world, mate. Sounds like you've got a helluva support system around you, not to mention the good wishes from many, many people whom you've never met. What more could one ask for?
Er...other than a new job, that is.
I'm pretty sure that with your level of experience, you'll have something new lined up in no time.
Take care.
another random message of support from another person who found out about this by reading the livejournal RSS feed of mr. gaiman's blog.
ReplyDeleteit's pretty much all been said, so i'll just quote those cards that amnesty international likes to have people sign, then mails oodles of to political prisoners:
we know you are there. do not give up hope.
signed,
d_e_l_i_r_i_u_m of livejournal
I used to work at Wateryshite's head office and I can confirm that they are a paranoid time serving bunch of servile obsequious non literary arse lickers with no more interested in running a chain of book stores than they have in protecting liberty and free speech.
ReplyDeleteF R E E T H E W A T E R S T O N E ' S O N E ! ! !
ReplyDeleteThe comment posted at 8.12pm last night is the way to go if you want to get your job back.
ReplyDeleteYour union should back you if you are in the right. Don't go over the top right now. Be reasonable - although sadly the fact you've written about this in your blog may have - ironically - compounded the problem. Sorry............
Good luck.
i got here from Neil Gaiman's site too.
ReplyDeletei too will boycott them.
it seems to be adding up.
You have my sympathy and support. I too will be avoiding Waterstones like the plague. More visits to Transreal in the Grassmarket, I feel.
ReplyDeleteI have emailed my local store to inform them of my decision to boycott and the reasons for it. As a former bookshop employee (I got out to get a properly paid job) I know the amount of work which goes into it and as a result doubt you will have much trouble finding work elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteGood luck
good luck, Waterstones seem totally out of order to me. Take your ten + years of experience elsewhere, sure you'll be able to get another job soon.
ReplyDeletehave emailed this link to www.theregister.co.uk, they have said they will be covering the story shortly.
ReplyDeleteI got here origonally via a friends livejournal btw
Once again, I came here via Neil's Journal.
ReplyDeleteI for one will be boycotting Waterstones from now on. As the manager of a bookshop if a member of staff wanted to take the Michael online, I would not mind provided I had the right to reply.
Best wishes,
Gordon Munden.
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
- Frank Zappa
Another Gaimanite here (we are legion, as I'm sure you well know). Just wanted to say best of luck in either suing Waterstone's pants off or getting a new, better job with a new, better employer. I will be travelling to the UK later this year, and while it may not be much, I won't be satiating my book-habit with your fomer employer, either. Take care! ~Nikki (www.alendalux.com)
ReplyDeleteAnother who is linking through Neil. I'm shocked and disgusted. I will be boycotting Waterstones. I hope you get to go to a tribunal (most of which get settled out of court by the way). - Viv.
ReplyDeleteJust to let you know your story has made it to the BBC's website, it's on h2g2. It really sucks whats happened and you have my full sympathy. I'm just hoping my workplace never reads anything I post on the internet about them
ReplyDeleteAll the best
I was disgusted to hear the news about the over-reaction of Waterstones. I can only offer my support in your appeal and vote with my wallet and cease to purchase from Waterstones Shops. There seems to be little room for "people" in our new corporate world.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely pathetic behaviour by Waterstones. Sadly I thought that Waterstones was one of the better chains (certainly a lot better than WH Smith), who were passionate about books and the exchange of intellect, evidently some of the managers are just in the business to make money, and treat those who really are customer-facing (i.e. you), like a sack of dreck.
ReplyDeleteShameful, shameful. I don't know if I'll provide Waterstones with my hard-earned dosh anymore.
Another who followed the link in Neil Gaiman's blog. I am absolutely stunned at the behaviour of Waterstones.
ReplyDeleteTo those few commenters who basically said 'you should know better than to badmouth your employer' - I doubt that the blog entries in question amounted to anything particularly vile, if he's put in eleven years of dedicated work & service to the company and most importantly to the bookbuying public. Letting off steam for little frustrations is not a sackable matter!
Waterstones have totally shot themselves in the foot. Once the wider media gets on to this, it will have an impact - a sizeable majority of customers must care about freedom of expression. I can't physically boycott them because I work in an indie bookshop and so haven't purchased anything in Waterstones for many years - but I will nevertheless be writing to them as a former customer to express concern.
Good luck with your appeal & taking them down for unfair dismissal.
What a thunderous load of horse crap. The notion that you deserve to be fired for spoofing your company in your blog. Good luck to you, and I hope you land on your feet. It sounds like you've got a lot of folks on your side.
ReplyDeleteSteve Vernon
Nova Scotia
(outspoken at the best of times)
One final comment, before I adjourn to my own side of the ocean. If folks are truly pissed off over Waterstone's outrageous behaviour, they ought to show their disapproval with some sort of mass demonstration. Boycots are fine, but are hard to notice. I recommend that you folks organize a mass demonstration. Show up one morning enmasse, each protestor armed with a small hardcover diary, in which they have previously written their thoughts on the matter, or perhaps they can take some time as part of the demonstration to write some more thoughts on the case. The media would definitely have to be invited and you'd want to make sure you timed it to occur on a morning the authority figure in question was on the premises. Dump the books at his feet, voice your protest, pass out informative flyers to unknowing customers, show those rotten dogs what freedom of speech really sounds like, and leave them wishing for the days of whispering blogs, and snide comments.
ReplyDeleteThat's my two bits.
Toodleloo.
Yours in horror,
Steve Vernon
I read an article about your situation on The Register today and was compelled to read on.
ReplyDeleteI have forwarded your story on to BBC News in the hope that they can add further publicity to your plight.
Good luck!
I think you should find a publisher and write a book... THAT would be the ultimate irony when they have to stock it!
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame that these things happen. With your experience, you should be able to create your own employment soon.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that you meant no harm and there was a misunderstanding somewhere.
However, we are not all Ghandi and civil rights does not extend to saying anything you want whenever you want. Freedom of expression also requires we keep an eye on responsibility.
Too often many people today feel that free expression is whatever they say of feel at the moment without consequence. (I'm not saying you feel this way -- you obviously have a conscience.)
Ironically, many of the free expression people are the ones banning thought via hate crime legislation, etc. Free expression to many is a tirade of feelings without the consequence. It doesn't work that way. A company owns their image, etc. and they do have a right to what they expect.
I went through a similar thing and had it with companies so I created my own businesses so I could say what I want -- do what I want. Of course, I am also now having to watch the image of my own and my clients. So there is always responsibility with free speech and not "anything goes."
Be careful with and responsible and you will find it works out.
Good luck to you!
Piss poor management skills, and the work of cowards. I do hope you find something where they value integrity and honesty. Good luck in the job hunt.
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say, I'm taking my business elsewhere.
Paula x
I used to be a book dept manager (for John Menzies) and although I've been in IT for the past 10 years, I often miss it. Working in a literary environment can be a lot of fun.
ReplyDeleteI remember when Waterstones was an independent book store, now it seems to be run by 'suits'. I have to echo the suggestions already made: Get compensation; get another job. I wouldn't crawl back to a company that sacks staff without any warning. Especially a company that claims to be in favour of freedom of speech and expression.
That said, there is a cautionary tale here: be careful what you say online. Big Brother is watching. And you may well have been a little too free 'n' easy with the written word when it is your employer you are taking the pish out of. :-(
I for one won't be buying from Waterstones again. (I'm anal like that.)
All the best for the future. I'll be keeping an eye on your blog ...
Just heard about this from Willie Meikle on alt.books.ghost-fiction - I've been a regular browser in the Princes street Waterson's since it opened, and I'll certainly be taking my business elsewhere unless and until this situation is rectified.
ReplyDeleteAs should be becoming painfully obvious to Watersons by now, sacking you without a warning has brought their business a worse rep with more people than your blog ever could have.
Doug, Edinburgh
Like many people who have left comments here i have come from the Neil Gaiman site, which is slightly ironic because i bought my first Sandman graphic novel (signed by the way) from the Edinburgh Waterston’s. Buying that book probably got me into Neil Gaiman's writing so i felt it only proper to leave a comment here as you where probably the person who set up the signing. I'm glad that writers like Neil are putting a spotlight on this situation, because with out the writer's where would Waterston’s be?
ReplyDeleteI am a frequent visitor to Waterston’s and if i'm in a city that has one i pay them a visit, and more often than not spend a small fortune while i'm there. Every Waterston’s i've been to have some of the friendliest and knowledgeable staff i've known for a big name chain store and to think that they treat them (their biggest asset) this way is sickening. They have just lost a customer.
I hope everything sorts itself out for you soon and good luck with finding a new job.
If you do a search in Google for Waterstone's the BoingBoing article about your situation comes second on the list. I love the interweb.
ReplyDeleteThe following email sent to the CEO of the HMV Group Plc. :
ReplyDeleteDear Sir/Madam,
This is to let you know that as a long time customer of Waterstones, I shall be making every effort in the future to buy my books elsewhere. My reason for withdrawing my custom is your recent decision to sack your employee Joe Gordon who worked in the Princess Street, Edinburgh branch of Waterstones. I have absolutely no connection with Mr Gordon.
Mr Gordon's only crime seems to have been his maintenance of a 'blog' on the internet in his own time, which was, on occasion, mildly critical of his employers. He seems to have been given no warning of his dismissal.
Booksellers, of all organsiations, should be aware of the importance of the right to free speech. While there is probably no law in this country preventing you form taking this action, neither is there a law preventing your customers from withdrawing their custom. I hope that many will follow my example.
Sincerely
Martin
(Full name and address provided)
Sorry to hear of your troubles with Waterstones, but I hope you're taking heart from the groundswell of support that now exists for you.
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say I won't be shopping with Waterstone's Edinburgh (or anywhere) again and will be emailing them in a mo' to inform them of this.
Luke.
—"there can be no doubt that behind all the actions of this court of justice, that is to say in my case, behind my arrest and today's interrogation, there is a great organization at work. An organization which not only employs corrupt warders, oafish Inspectors, and Examining Magistrates of whom the best that can be said is that they recognize their own limitations, but also has at its disposal a judicial hierarchy of high, indeed of the highest rank, with an indispensable and numerous retinue of servants, clerks, police, and other assistants, perhaps even hangmen, I do not shrink from that word. And the significance of this great organization, gentlemen? It consists in this, that innocent persons are accused of guilt, and senseless proceedings are put in motion against them..." Franz Kafka, The Trial
ReplyDeleteGot an actual response from the CEO of HMV Group Plc. (company who owns Waterstones)to my email posted above as follows:
ReplyDeleteDear Mr {name withheld)
Thank you for your e-mail to our corporate website.
Unfortunately I cannot comment on this matter at this time as it is confidential between the company and Mr Gordon.
Yours sincerely
Alan Giles
I worked for WS myself a few years ago. They have had some negative publicity over staff issues before - remember the saga of the Manchester Deansgate manager (Robert Topping)? Might be worth contacting the Guardian, who ran a lot of stories on this back then.
ReplyDeleteI've come from Neil's post. I'm really sorry for what happened to you and would recommend legal advice over your contract's wording. Please keep us posted and until this gets resolved Waterstones are off my bookshop list.
ReplyDeleteAnother one who found this through Neil's blog. I'm disgusted with Waterstones. I've been buying books there since I was in school - never again. I've drafted a letter to send to them, though I don't expect any more of a response than the poster above was given.
ReplyDeleteChristy
I am a fellow W'stoner and I was stunned. I'm going to have to go back through my blog and censor the hell out of it.
ReplyDeletePeople, don't email your complaints. Emails get discounted. Send letters to:
Waterstone's Booksellers Ltd
Capital Court
Capital Interchange Way
Brentford
Middlesex
TW8 0EX
This company is a bit old-fashioned. Paper and ink will make a much greater impression than emails, which can simply be deleted, or phone calls, which rarely go to the right person.
And please spell check. Thanks!
Sincerely on your side,
Another 'stoner drone
Hi
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to let you know i work for JobcentrePlus and wanted to give you some advice, first off please don't stick your contract online as that would give them grounds to dismiss you. Unless you signed the official secrets act in your job and your comments do not mention names at work or customers names then they are on very dodgy ground and as long as you have been in the job for a year or longer you can take them to court for unfair dismisal. I would highly recommend you do this as you have a good case
http://www.livejournal.com/users/blue_cat/425297.html?#cutid1
I hope the following article helps you. Good luck.
As many here have pointed out, it really is flabbergasting how blindly most large companies treat situations of this kind. By taking an extreme action to stop a little of what they perceive to be "bad publicity", they cause a great more of the same. One would think a bookselling concern, that deals with words and writers and the power they have, would be familiar enough with blogs to realize that firing you would only make the "situation" far, far worse.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of those religious groups that form loud picket lines at the openings of movies they don't like, thus guaranteeing free publicity and massive viewership for those very same films. Does no one have any common sense anymore?
I agree that you ought to look into starting your own bookstore. With all the readership and good contacts you seem to have, though, perhaps an online bookstore would be even better.
Got here via Gaiman's blog, by the way.
Cheers!
Serai
Hi, just to tell you that your story got to Belgium also :)
ReplyDeleteWaterstone did a bad job, if you asked me *grin*
Good luck!
From what I could tell, you were always hiding in the romace novel section, snigerring away your afternoons. More power to you, but some people would be glad to be unemployed so that they could get on the dole and start a rock supergroup. Maybe you could be the new singer for Queen?
ReplyDeleteI'm amazed that companies still feel that they can get away with things like this nowadays.
ReplyDeleteRing the head office and ask who their data protection officer is.
Contact them and ask how to send them a subject data access request.
You can find out about them from this link
http://www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/
These requests cost a maximum of £10 to cover admin charges but some companies do not charge at all.
Be very explicit in what you ask for in the request, specifically name all the members of the disciplinary board, all your management and colleagues that might possibly have brought your blog to their attention and finish with any other employee or contractor employed by Waterstones PLC.
Request any and all documentation held by them in both electronic and paper records, on network and stand alone computer systems and removable media having anything to do with you and in particular anything relating to your disciplinary procedure.
They have 40 days to supply this information and in theory they should contact you within 20 to inform you of their action.
They will censor certain information IE other peoples names etc if they wish but you will at least have a copy of the document and can see the censoring.
This should at least get you the story behind the scenes and your union rep and or solicitor if it goes to tribunal will then be able to request uncensored copies of the documents and they cannot then deny having them which should aid your case.
Regards
Wayne
Joe if you want free advice re employment contact your local CAB theres one in Dundas St. They will call my friend who is their legal expert in employment matters in their central office.
ReplyDeleteEmail me if you would like to contact her directly creativevoyage AT hotmail.com
I wonder if your December 11th blog might have something to do with Waterstones sudden action. Good luck anyway and Waterstones have now lost my money...
ReplyDeletePhil
The question I have to ask is does disrepute still exist in this day and age?
ReplyDeleteDEF: A loss or lack of credit or repute
And repute
DEF: to be as specified or public estimation, reputation
So causing the comapny a loss or lack of reputation.
Personally having a boss who is apparently less than user friendly doesn't make me want to use the company that employs him less so in that respect his comments do not bring any disrepute on that company from me.
However sacking an employee of 11 years for making comments about a person who is unnamed working for a company who's name is never specifically mentioned in my opinion does bring this company into disrepute.
Personally I'm tempted to do all my book shopping there next time I'm in town.
I'm going to go get arm loads of books from all over the store, especially the hard to reach places.
Take them to the till and after they've been rung in simlply call over the manager and inform them that I do not think their company is reputable for sacking a member of staff from their Edinborough branch.
I'll also be asking them to sent the till receipt to the head office to show just how much cash that decision has just cost the company.
Seeing the cash they could have had will affect them far more than any letter of complaint.
Wayne
Whilst I agree that firing for 'gross misconduct' for blogging is not particularly fair, I do think people should perhaps wait until after the union has appealed for 'unfair dismissal' before sending off Disgusted of the Blogsphere emails to all and sundry. If the dismissal was unfair, the union will fight it and win (I have had a friend reinstated after a similar case, complete with compensation).
ReplyDeleteGood luck, Joe. We here in America (home of the world's largest-- and often most arrogant-- corporations) are rooting for you. Business often has to be told when to mind their *own* business.
ReplyDeleteSomeone else mentioned this was on the BBC website - it's also in the Guardian:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1388289,00.html?gusrc=rss
I would hope that you could get a job with any other bookshop in the city, due to the publicity this has all generated. Good luck!
I just want to chip in with my support.
ReplyDeleteThat these things happen is ludicrous, but then again one cannot expect logic from corporations. (See Sony vs Fiona Apple!) It's not something that ought to happen, and certainly not in this modern age.
Hoping things work out for you: perhaps some sensible reader of your blog will realise that you're exactly the sort of employee he wants in HIS bookstore and offers you a job :)
PS: I too came via the Neil Gaiman's blog. Hopefully you don't get slashdotted anytime in the near future!
Nothing witty or exciting to add. Just wanted to express support. It's a pity that a good man, who has given so much to his company, has been treated with so little respect. Very sad that this is their view of free expression -- a company that makes its money on the back of it!
ReplyDeleteLooks like I'll have to go somewhere else to buy my textbooks. Can't trust a company like that.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing much I can say other than this is utterly despicable and outrageous.
ReplyDeleteUnlike you, I have been fired from a job before. It's never a nice experience, though your firing sounds quite a bit nastier than mine. It helps when you can be confident that you didn't do anything wrong, and the only reason you were fired is that someone left the clueless numbnut fuckwit morons in charge.
...which certainly seems to be the case here. :-)
I know I found it very satisfying when the directors of the company that fired me (a classic mismanaged dot-bomb) only just managed to weasel their way out of criminal charges - when the company finally collapsed it was found out they hadn't been paying the legally-required employee superannuation contributions - since well before I was hired. So I even ended up as one of their creditors. Heh.
Good luck, I hope things work out well for you. I agree with several of the other commenters that you can only do better somewhere else... that company will (hopefully) have to start laying off staff soon, preferably with the idiots that fired you first on the list.
Read the article on The Register (www.theregister.co.uk) and after reading this post, felt that I should express that I support your cause fully, and that I don't think that Waterstones have acted in a constructive or fair manner, especially to someone who has served them for so long...
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say I will be shopping for my books elsewhere from now on, either online at Amazon or at the relatively new Ottakers which I have not even had to look into yet. This is not the sort of company I wish to support.
Keep us posted on any progress.
Josh
Perhaps the real revenge will come someday soon when Waterstone finds itself in some tempest in a teapot over a book that it has sold. Why should people who know that they are not free to say what they think of their employer make an effort to support a bookstore that is at odds with the state? Freedom of speech, fair trials, decency, mercy, compassion, these are mantras of the tired and the dead. Our time is over, let us have our rest. To this brave new world we shall leave itself, its endless lies, permissions, omissions, commentators with secret commissions, spies on missions. They will have their brains enhanced with wondrous devices that allow them pay-per-memory insight into the world, provided that those brains agree always with their masters; to their endless torment, let us refrain from committing any that we might love.
ReplyDeleteYour story has touched me. Next time you're in London, let me buy you dinner! It's the very least you deserve.
ReplyDeleteHamish
i believe in freedom of speach but i also think your being a little niave in not seeing the contradiction in 'satarising' a company who you CHOSE to work for. it's like people who go on anti-capitalist marches and work for starbucks.... what exactly did you expect them to think of it? i guess you just thought they'd never see it.
ReplyDeleteHi Joe.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to add another voice of support to the many other ones - I sympathise with you wholeheartedly, it's diabolical the way Waterstones have treated you over this.
Frankly, it's yet another shining example of the [mis]management of staff by 'managers' who have no idea of the *ideal* way to deal with people, preferring instead the 'hammer-and-tongs' approach.
I sometimes wonder if people in a managerial position actually enjoy going completely over the top with issues that, in all honesty, could be dealt with in a much more subdued and maybe 'informal' way (such as the branch manager having a quiet word and politely asking you to remove the offending statement) which would then have a greater chance of achieving the required outcome. Maybe they enjoy the feeling of supremacy they have over you - I don't know. All I know is that they handled this situation so very wrongly.
Waterstones have now shot themselves in the foot over all this; a fact which I hope they realise sooner rather than later and act upon appropriately.
Very best of luck in your hunt for a new job and for the future, I hope you find a company where the staff know how to treat their staff and where you skills and knowledge will be appreciated.
NP.
HI - I am appalled though not surprised. As an ex- Waterstone's employee (Who left through choice 5 years ago) I have long been suspicious about the methods Waterstone's will use to get rid of, or push out, long serving staff who cost the company more in wages (Admittedly not a huge amount!) and who excercise more 'free' styles of bookselling (Those who remember Waterstone's before centralised buying will know what I mean).
ReplyDeleteIn this cas I would say they have no leg to stand on - if they were unable to have a quiet word with you beforehand, gave no other warnings and they have no problem with your work then they cannot expect to win if you take them to a tribunal!
I worked for Watershites for just under a year, and I was there long enough to learn that the image they project to punters is very, very different to the one they promote internally. You seemed to be exactly the sort of committed bookseller that they like to showcase - the sort of bookseller that kept me faithful to Waterstones as a customer (before I worked there). Money can't buy your sort of committment, or experience, or enthusiasm for what they sell. It's a sad indictment on the company that they couldn't recognise this. Unfortunately for them, your blog's now a lot more high-profile, and there's sod-all they can do about it!
ReplyDeleteGood luck with the future.
Ellie, from Oxfordshire
YOU haven't brought their company into disrepute, pal. THEY have.
ReplyDeleteFortunately Waterstones in Glasgow is a short walk from a large Ottakars and a similar distance from a huge Borders, so for me the remedy is easy.
I'll be writing to your ex-employers as soon as I find an email address.
Chin up!
Some petty, thick Idiotstones middle-manager has made a gross error of judgement over this. The way you've been treated (and its reporting) will give them more negative publicity than your blog ever did.
ReplyDeleteI read your comments about your employers (in your blog) as general comments on the employer and this did not affect my opinion of them in terms of the service and goods they provide. But because of the way they've treated you, I'll not buy from them again.
un-be-liev-able.
ReplyDeleteSeldom have I read something that has made me as dumbstruck as this tale of small-minded nonsense. Perhaps Interpol should just obtain the details of every blogger on the Net and have us all sacked. Madness.
I am now going to take back three books I have just bought from Waterstones and go and buy them somewhere else, before never frequenting them again.
Needless to say any (and lots) of right-minded people back you on this. I hope you can take them to the cleaners, for everyones sake.
Lord Bargain
Joe,
ReplyDeleteI was a bit staggered when I read about what had happened to you in the Graun.
Good luck with whatever course of action you choose to take.
stop whining like a little bitch. --kko
ReplyDeletecongratulations your story is featured on bbc ceefax from which i was able to find your site
ReplyDeletein scanning for woolamaloo gazette on google i saw "don't buy books from waterstones" (it isn't within the page referenced anymore) Could this be the reason why they've sacked you?
One more bookseller and Gaimanite here, just writing in to add my support. The way things are now, anyone who bothers to stand up for free private speech is okay by me.
ReplyDelete<--Know what that is? Stunned silence!! This is a blatant violation of civil right and I feel so sorry you have been subjected to this Joe. I frequent the Princess St. on a regular basis but needless to say I won't be any more. Just want to add my support to your ever growing list. Best of luck with whatever course of action you take.
ReplyDeleteRob
Just wanted to drop a comment and let you know that my friends and I in Toronto, Canada are spreading the word and supporting you, despite the fact that the company in question has no offices here. This awful bookstore now has a reputation literally world-wide for its mistreatment of loyal, hardworking employees.
ReplyDeleteKeep fighting the good fight!
-Alexis et al, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Outrageous! On online petition or giving your old boss all these comments to read might be a good start. That and pointing out one of the first words you see when entering the blog - "satirical".
ReplyDeleteToph
Only posting anonymously because of my position. I am appalled at what happened to you and they sure as hell better reinstate you toute suite. I am already planning a campaign, involving my colleagues and the customers at my place of work, which may or may not be a big bookstore.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I've been lead to beleive this is more the kind of thing Borders would do! Who will be next?
We will be watching your experiences WITH GREAT INTEREST.
Good luck, and you can count on us for support.
Someone with a terrific mangager who in no way resembles that guy in the Dilbert cartoons. And she knows it.
PS- It the folks at Head Office had spy cameras and bugs in our staffroom, they would no doubt be sacking the lot of us on a regular basis. All the time. Every day. And who would sell the precious books?
ReplyDeletePS PS.
ReplyDeleteI am very pleased with your choice of a Frederick Douglass quote.
With 23 years of experience in the public sector I have learnt that saying what you think about anything the organization you work for does, unless it conforms to the organization's view of itself(or those people's view above you)is not appreciated and only brings you trouble. I sincerely believe that most people who get to positions of power only want stepford wives working for them. But people/employees have a lot of rights nowadays and yours have definately been infringed.
ReplyDeleteIF you want your job back I hope you get it.
I've been a regular customer of Waterstone's since I was about five years old, when my mum would buy me a book to keep me quiet while she went shopping in town. I have always gone there in preference to any other bookshop.
ReplyDeleteI spent over 200 pounds at Waterstone's in September/October 2004 for my first year of uni. It's not working out, so I'm moving to Edinburgh next year to start again on a different course with (you guessed it) different textbooks. My first instinct would have been to buy them at a Waterstone's, probably the shop that fired you.
Not any more. I am very disappointed in them. They will not have any of my money until this is sorted out.
from one Celtic (no, not the football team) ass to another..
ReplyDeleteJoe, I just can't believe this happened. Not just because of what you've done (which is what exactly?) but also of who you are. You seem like someone who really gives a damn and who has put huge work into Waterstones in the past. Shame on them.
But, practically speaking, I can't see this holding up in court if it were to go that far. As you said, freedom of speech is enshrined in our basic rights, not just something we mention every now and again, and what you do and say in your own time outside work has absolutely nothing to do with what they tell you you should do. So, I'd fight this one (and get another job in the meantime). Surely minor-celebrity status won't disimprove your prospects with some worthwhile employers? ;) Got here via the Guardian, by the way..
I'm so sorry to hear about your firing and Waterstone's rank hypocrisy. It really sucks to find supposedly progressive employers (a bookstore ferchrisakes!) acting like self-righteous prigs.
ReplyDeleteMay you find another gig soon.
Best,
Jim Ospenson
www.jambop.com
Not sure what good it will do, but I emailed the bastards to let them know they won't be seeing any more of my business. Stay strong,
ReplyDeleteDoc
Just dropped in after reading the article in the times. What a sad calamity has befallen you. I have taken the decision to boycott "that bookstore" for another along princes st.
ReplyDeleteAppeal all the way, and show them that free speech must prevail.
The story is down under in Austraila- I got here from "dock of the bay' blog.
ReplyDeleteAll this international indignation is fine but if the 'suits' as the have been referred to, are blissfully unaware, then it's all to naught.
Withdrawing custom probably won't be noticed. Even if there's a long term downturn, the other employees will be the ones made redundant as there are cutbacks in a now, 'unprofitable' branch.
The letter above is a great idea. I would love an email address to express my outrage directly. But I suppose there would be a problem posting it on this site as it could be seen as an attack. Get some good legal advice. Since you are a union member, they should be able to help.
But although you are caught up in your righteous indignation please remember the old saying:
"Revenge is a dish best served cold"
The cynical may say that you should have known better but surely we must live in hope that people will not live up to our very worst expectations? I'm disappointed that a comfortable old friend such as Waterstones should have its reputation sullied by the incompetence of some management oik. Many are the chapters of Mr Gaiman's books I've whiled away in its bosom. Companies are made up of people. Someone, somewhere took the decision - 'made the call' (someone with considerably less than eleven year's experience with Waterstones?). Why not name and shame these scrooges? As some people seem to be fond of saying these days - 'If you have nothing to hide...'.
ReplyDeleteWOW. I am speechless. God bless you & yours.
ReplyDeleteJust can only say I want you to know I found this link to here via Neil Gaiman's blog.
www.neilgaiman.com
Hey there. All the best for the future, mate. Read about your plight in the Sydney Morning Herald (refer HERE).
ReplyDeleteI'm a mobile blogger (http://beta.phlog.net/user/OzDJ) and have deliberately not mentioned or directly identified my employer. I mean - they're a great mob to work for.... but you never know.... (as you well understand now).
Cheers from Sydney, NSW, Australia
Derek
just found your site via Geeksgirl.
ReplyDeletewhatever happened to democracy, freedom of speech and quite frankly human decency and etiquette...
If we had a Watermans here, I think I'd stop buying.
eM, Cape Town, South Africa
I've read an article about you on a dutch site 'www.nu.nl'. The link to your website was on it and I started to read your story, and it's absurd what they've done. Indeed; where's the democracy?
ReplyDeleteIt's sad that companies still think that what somebody's says will destroy them. I think by dismissing you, they showed that you were/are stroger than they are.
Good luck, Greg Visser from the Netherlands
gregyor@hotmail.com
You have my deepest sympathy. As someone who has been on the raw end of disciplinary action which could have been resolved by a quiet word beforehand, I entirely understand how you feel.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, by the time it gets to this stage one tends to find that the employer has already burned their bridges, making it very hard for the employee.
TOUGH!!!!
ReplyDeleteNo matter which company you work for you have a duty not to bring them into disrepute. Discussing this with friends or family is not an issue but to PUBLISH disparaging comments is another matter. We may have free speech (no one is stopping you from saying what you wish) but you have to live with the consequences of your actions.
I do think it is harsh but I would be surprised if this is the only reason you were fired. I expect there is more to this tale than you are letting on...
Hmm... well, let it not be said that free speech isn't allowed on here but I'm really disappointed with the previous post.
ReplyDeleteHow arrogant and naive... Perhaps the previous poster could read more of the blog before coming to altogether suprising conclusion.
The facts of the matter are clear - it was 'cos if his blog he got fired, nothing more. You can't do that to people and shouldn't get away with it.
For god sakes, man. He's lost his job and all you can winge on about is "no smoke without fire?". You don't work for Bastardstone's do you?
A couple of years ago a friend of mine was asked to resign over comments she made about her employer on her blog. She'd only been working there a few months.
ReplyDeleteWhen I found out I went through all my blog entries and made the more incriminating ones friends only, and now I don't post publicly at all because of that.
At the time I'd just got a job with an American owned company and I was still in training. The manager who was training me was a terrible bully, but she was popular with her superiors (her shop rakes in the money, and it's mostly down to her). So, of course, I was less than complimentary!
Good luck with the tribunal, and good luck with finding a better job, with better employers.
Maybe you should write a book about it, I wonder if Waterstones would stock it? :-)
You can also seek free employment law advice from ACAS. I know, every thinks they only do arbitration, but their bread and butter is employment law in general.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.acas.org.uk
There advice is free and independent.
... and oh! What's wrong with British Management? Promoting brainless, half witt, brown nosed droids above their level of capability.
Good luck with your employment tribunal. I suspect you will have a strong case and could win considerable damages. You should dig up other blogs out on the blogs sphere that shows similar employees doing the same to their own companies. It is even better if you can show people who work for Bastardstones or work in the same industry. This shows that this is an accepted practice in the industry and/or the public domain space in general. The effect of any contractual gray areas are weakened by showing these types of things.
Hopefully a top employment lawyer will come forward with an offer of free legal advice for you. These corporations need to be taught a lesson.
I'd stop buying from Waterstones but I've not bought anything there for quite some time. Definitely won't be purchasing anything in the near future until this matter is resolved.
Good luck.
Since I too am an employee at Waterstone's I'm posting anonymously. (Whilst looking over my shoulder to check for the Secret Police wearing W badges) You've got my support.
ReplyDeleteFunny how all managers at Waterstone's seem to be raving lunatics, must be W-managerschool's courses in alienating staff. Good luck and hang in there.
After reading your story I can only admit that Waterstone's made the stupid mistake in their entire history. I think they didn't expect the snowball effect of sacking you. Now you see how powerfull the internet has become, because within days you're not local but worldwide news.
ReplyDeleteI became aware of this through the nu.nl newssite. By sacking you Waterstone's became to me a bookstore I won't be visiting for awhile. I'm a regular visitor to the UK, but from now on Waterstone's won't count on me anymore.
Keep up the fight and I'm sure and convinced that you will find a new job soon. Someone with experience and expertise on the literature front should be wanted by lots of companies.
This is simply outrageous, what the h*** do they think they are...? They sell books for "crisakes"...
ReplyDeleteI wish you all the best and I am sure you will find someone who will employ instead of sack you because of the practical joke. On my next visit to the UK I will not buy at Bastardstones untill this is resolved or rectified!
Take care!
As a US bookstore manager I want to express my outrage at what happened to you. I would walk out before ever agreeing to fire one of my hardworking/dedicated/underpaid employees over ANY opinion they had reguarding me or the company that we work for. Good luck to you.
ReplyDeleteJust to let you know...I will no longer be buying ANY books from Waterstones, and neither will various members of my family. I had an order for just under £300 of books which I have just phoned through to cancel. When I was asked why, I told the chap on the end of the phone that I could not bring myself to buy anything from a company with such an appalling attitude towards its staff.
ReplyDeleteIt's not much, but over the course of the year, that's at least a couple of thousand that will NOT be seen by Waterstones. I wish you all the best and will be keeping an eye on the happenings...Let's hope they see sense.
Ugly, monolithic stupidity is not at all shocking from Waterstone's. Its employees see it every day. Its managers complain to themselves and each other about it. Waterstone's is as crass a corporate entity as any other high street chain. Because it sells books, people tend to think otherwise. They manage to get themselves in to the media with some HR disaster every few years. No other bookshop can claim to do that. Fucking idiots.
ReplyDeleteJames Reich
Secession Books
Bath
I seems pretty clear to me, readers should spend their money elsewhere. I guess the Waterstones will be attacking the press for reporting the issue.
ReplyDeleteSue the bastards I say!
As another ex Waterstone's employee I just wanted to offer my sympathies. While I worked there I was treated appallingly by management and had to quit before they fired me. I was close to shooting my mouth off at them for the terrible treatment of their staff. Since then, I've shopped elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteThe reputation of Waterhouse was impugned by their statements and actions not by yours, Joe.
ReplyDeleteI never heard of the company one way or the other and now they are infamous even in the USA.
Badly done, Waterhouse!
Cheers Joe! Change is good.
Brilliant move on the part of Waterstone's
ReplyDeleteGiving you the axe for speaking out about the company
in a satrical manner,while you were employed by them,and under some influence of their control.
Had they pulled you asside quietly and asked you to
suspend your blogging about the company, you've
indicated you would to keep the peace.
But now you are beyond their control, Free to spout
your head off to whomever will listen about what a
piss poor company these idiots are running. You can
name, names. Comment on policy. Openly discuss wages.
Anything and Everything short of out right slander,
that their contract with you could have prevented.
You know the guts of the company, the inner workings.
You were instrumental in arranging book signings with
authors, from the sounds of it. I say contact said
authors and let them know what happened.
In short, do _exactly_ what they say they fired you
for. Bring the company into disrepute, because of
their own actions.
I mean seriously, at this point what's to stop you?
Sorry to read your experience of learning that you were always, quite simply, an employee, in spite of your stated loyalty for 11 years.
ReplyDeletePerhaps this forced and unexpected change of direction will allow you an insight into the true power of your creative writing, hopefully leading you onto another, more personally satisfying life path.
Best wishes for your future choices, Frederick.
Peter Bryenton
www.brypix.com
i am an ex-employee of the Basingstoke branch of waterstones.
ReplyDeletewhile i was working at the brach i beacme a father. the level of compassion and understanding i received from the brach was less than zero. the manager was constantly berrating me for what he called my 'poor' performance. i had to try bloody hard to keep my job, to pay my rent and my bills and to not totally lose it altogether.
i asked the manager and assistant manager to take into consideration that i was about to become a father, and all they could say was that i had a job to do and that i should not let my personal life interferewith the 'smooth running' of the branch.
leaving that environment has been one of the best changes of career i have ever had.
the company is the most ignorant, right-wing hive of retards i have ever worked for. i honestly think that further than the company's lack of creativity, originality and business sense, the management seems entirely geared towards attracting and manufacturing bland and offensive little hitlers whose grasp of basic human rights is as shakey as their knowledge of decent literature.
i cannot effectively express the anger and resentment i feel towards waterstones. they didn't give a shit about me, and they don't give a shit about the artistic integrity of the authors whose works they sell.
fuck waterstones
myrmyr
well i stumbled across this site purely by accident when trying to find research on waterstones in preparation for an interview. And i must say that all the comments really surprise me. I'v finished the (mock) interview now and found the manager of the Exeter branch an extremely friendly, kind, and understanding person. I still thik the bookshop is very good and has an excellent range.
ReplyDeleteNo business is perfect, however.
I feel sorry for your manager, really. It must be terrible to be owned body & soul by his employer 24-7.
ReplyDeleteIf he has a bad day he probably goes home to his wife who says: How was work today dear? Okay dear he replies without a flicker of a life.
Think yourself lucky you are not this little man, capable of your own thoughts and feelings, do not let him belittle you.
I hope you find employment somewhere better and if it isn't better that you feel free enough to say so.
What happened to you is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Simple as that.
Craig
Hello,
ReplyDeleteAfter being fired from my job of five years with a major publishing house, I just came across your blog and wanted to offer my sympathies and also thank you for providing me with some comfort in the fact that there are so many other unfortunate situation such as the one I just went through. Like you, I've had infinite support from my family and friends after everything that happened and I do think it is an extremely unfair and overly extreme way of dealing with employees and their blogs. It seems more like a hush deal - shut them up and get them out before anyone finds out what kind of corporate enviornment these big companies are really working under. I'm far from a communist, but the way my former employer rushed me out the door was the equivalent of a Gestapo raid... Better things to come, and lesson learned. Unfortunately, this is something that is becoming very popular in the corporate culture, and I suppose all we can do is just spread the word of warning to others.
This probably makes no difference to you, but after reading this, I will not spend another penny at Waterstones or any other comapny in their group... Now to just find out all the other companies in their group :)
ReplyDeleteI go to Waterstone's, Edinburgh about twice a month, and must have spent well over £700 last year. No more.....
ReplyDeleteJust did a search for Waterstones on Google to find the price of harry potter. I found your page instead.
ReplyDeleteI found you when I was searching for Waterstones online. I have emailed your link to everyone I know. Waterstones have done their reputation more harm through firing you than you ever would have through your blog. I hope it all works out for you. Keep smiling.
ReplyDeleteRachael, Nottingham
I used to work for Waterstone's, for 18 months, and frankly I feel that many members of the public who do not or have not worked in retail have absolutely no idea of what it's like. You are literally a piece of meat with a pre-programmed set of responses to give customers. The pay is appalling, considering the huge amount of work and worth that employees contribute, and the size of the company. It really doesn't matter how hard you work, you are rarely rewarded financially or in kind. Promotion means very little in any case - a few pence an hour more. I was actually performing duties listed in the guidelines for someone several grades higher than myself. Even though I put in the effort and did very well at these tasks, when my review finally came around I was not promoted, for a silly reason like the books in an area I was responsible for were not sitting there like an artefact surrounded by rope with 'Please do not touch the exhibit' signs around it, at the time that the manager bothered to have a look. Maybe that was because some customers had just been actually looking at the books, and I hadn't had time to instantly dash over to perfect them before he turned up. Luckily I now have a much better job and it feels like a vindication - despite my many academic qualifications, intelligence and previous retail experience, I was treated like a fool from day one at Waterstone's, while now I'm treated with respect and am doing someting I really enjoy.
ReplyDeleteI am disgusted at the current aim of the company to outbuy a rival, much smaller and friendlier chain. They are ruining bookselling. Waterstone's might as well be a supermarket - bookselling has come down to that level. It's all about sales and business, not at all about people who actually once had a love of books before they became a member of staff. Just draft in a load of money-grabbing flash guys with MBAs and all is well. Yeah right. The heart and soul has been ripped out and I have no intention of shopping there again.
I stumbled across your site when doing a search against Waterstones. I sympathise greatly with your position but am not altogether surprised about the approach taken by Waterstones. I have some experience of Scots employment law. In Scots law it is a term implied in every employment contract that a duty of trust and confidence is owed by the employer to the employee and by the employee to the employer. Regardless of what your employment contract actually says it is a clear breach of this implied term (which if serious enough can justify summary dismissal) for you to be using expressions such as "bastardstones" to describe your employer on a public website. In the same way had a member of Waterstones management made a derogatory public comment about you, you may well have the right to claim constructive and consequently unfair dismissal against Waterstones. Its not really a question of the right to free speech its about a breach of the implied duty of trust in the employer/employee relationship. That being said your immediate dismissal without warning was heavy handed particularly given your lengthy employment history and I hope you succeed in any tribunal action which you seek to take.
ReplyDeleteMy son used to work in a Mobile Phone shop,and has his own phone account with Vodafone which is on contract.He has two numbers active with the latter,one I am using.He has had a disagreement with the company he worked for.On one day I cannot remember which ,I had a call from his employers asking his where abouts ,,after a lengthy conversation I asked where did they get my number from. "they replied from his contract paper work and then said I had text the shop manager ,,I did text him but from an old number as I had my number changed about four days prior to recieving the call from them.I asked my son about this and he said there was no paper work in the shop about his phone account at all.My son now thinks that they managed to get into his vodafone account.Is there grounds to take legal action on the subject of the Data Protection Law.Your advice would be gratefully recieved.Regards Ian Matthews
ReplyDeleteHi, Ian,
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid that is way out of my area of expertise, although from what I recall from my college days any company misusing personnel data can get themselves into trouble under the data protection act. That has been beefed up since I was at college, so my advice is to either seek out the Data Protection Act ombudsman (should be on Google) or talk to your nearest Citizen's Advice Beaureau who should be able to help you there. Misuse of personal data is very serious, so please try talking to one of these folks and let us know how you get on.
Joe
hey,just to say im going through a similar thing at the moment so I know how u feel. just when did everything get so serious and so work related? I gotta agree with Rouseau here "man is born free yet every where he is in chains" just when did signing a contract to work mean that you sign you basic human rights away?
ReplyDeleteEveryone here seems to agree in freedom of speech/expression, but very few are making the point that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Frankly, I think Waterson's termination of Joe was an overreaction, but when an employee has sentiments of disloyalty to his/her employer, boss, or colleagues he or she would be naive to think the consequences that follow as unfair. When you dive into shark infested waters, you should be prepared to get bitten at least a little.
ReplyDeleteHi Joe,
ReplyDeleteI currently work at Waterstones under a certain manager and think that the term 'Evil Boss' is far to flattering. You may be Interested to know that a former employee from the West End branch is taking Waterstones to tribunal over the behaviour of the same manager.In the immortal words of Rolf Harris "Can you guess who it is yet?" YES! Its that man again! Ian Webster.
Any news on the tribunal that never was????
ReplyDeleteI haven't heard anymore on this new tribunal, although several different people have told me independently about how the staff at his new branch were not exactly inspired or motivated by his introduction speech when he moved there.
ReplyDeleteI was so sorry to read about this, and I can't believe it hasn't been more widely discussed. I worked for Ottakars, but I left just before the Waterstones takeover, and thank goodness, as everyone I know there is so unhappy with the way things have been changed. You've been treated awfully, and I really hope that you get some justice over this.
ReplyDeleteI have also worked for Waterstones for 11 years. I have enjoyed my job, am friends with my manager and find him supportive of other staff. I would not work in an environment I found restrictive and have resigned from other jobs when I have felt unappreciated. Myself and my collegues often complain about customers etc, but in private and amongst ourselves. You must surely realise that public comments can offend and personal opinions can mislead and only represent part of the story. I can only comment on my experience with the company, and I'm sorry if yours has been less than satisfactory. However, Waterstone's experience with you has been less than satisfactory too, and they have a reputation to uphold too. The mere fact that you still haven't learned to tone down the comments suggests to me that you would never have given up blogging just for the sake of keeping you job, so maybe Waterstone's did the right thing after all...
ReplyDeleteThis is outrageous behaviour on the part of Waterstone's... What hypocrisy... i have just recently applied to their Gower street branch for part time work... looks like i will be applying to Border's instead.
ReplyDeleteHaha, yeah I agree it is pretty dumb in my opinion as well...but hey what can you do about it.
ReplyDelete